2007-03-02 [The Voice of Difference]: This person isn't on Elfpack yet, but may be soon.

2007-03-04 [Looni Commanda]: ... your a scary person... the picture at the end is very violent.

2007-03-07 [Child of God]: Indeed. I would be interested in chatting with this person should he come to elfpack, since I used to hold many of the same beliefs he argues here.

2007-03-09 [The Voice of Difference]: I don't care aboot the picture, I'm interested in the message.

2007-03-09 [The Voice of Difference]: -cough- Messege.

2007-04-02 [Looni Commanda]: the message is false! God exists...
did you know, that there is more proof on the earth that Jesus was around than George Washington? Scientists have the papers that were legal to put him to death! and if he didn't exist, the romans would have proof because they would have his dead body just to prove he did not reserect right? well... where is his body? the Romans hated him, and there was a bolder gaurding the door with two roman soldiers gaurding it. if they wanted to prove he didn't exist, they would have provided a body to give off the message that he was killed and did NOT reserect! But they didn't HAVE one! and how would a jew steal it if there was a bolder, and two roman gaurds standing in front of the cave he was put in? How would a jew get in to steal the body? he must have reserected! And for your information, you can't see god because there is not picture of him. He is love, and you can not physically see love! I am not yelling or mocking you, I am just explaining deeper detail in how faith works. There is more than enough proof, that he did indeed exist and is the son of God. god is real, not a fairy tail. My mom saw Jesus when she was in the hospital dying,.... she told me, and I totally believe her. She saw him when she was put in a burning closet by a man who was insane, and he also spoke to her! He is totally real! I feel so strongly that he exists, that I fell terribly hurt and distrusted when someone puts him down like this wiki does... when he was killed, he was put up on a cross, and hung there from nothing but nails holding him up, and a ring of thorns on his head, all for the people. And, if he wasn't the son of god, he would have just admitted it before he was HUNG BY HIS WRISTS ON A CROSS! don't you think so? I'm sorry... I am just... really hurt by the message you are trying to portray

2007-04-09 [The Voice of Difference]: First: Okay, Jesus of Nazereth existed. But, he wasn't the son of god, he was voted to that title by a council, and it was a slim win. Second, if you just plain out 'believe' your mother out of blind faith, you're a moron. She was more likely to have been halucinating than 'actually' seeing Jesus.

That whole, "God said it, I believe it, that's the end of it!" Is the wrong mentality to go by. Why don't you do some research and find out for yourself the injustices, than read this and go off something your mother said when she was 1. and I quote, "put in a burning closet." You know how many different kinds of fumes and hallucinigens are in fire smoke? And 2. "when she was in the hospital dying," hmmm...? I wonder what drugs the docter put her on that might have been to try and stop her from dying?

Another piont, there were two thieves that were crusified right after he was. That was just how they killed people back then. If he had lived in a different time, he might have been hung, and if that had happened, do you think you would have a man hung on a string on your wrist, with a little bag over his head? And, his ankles were nailed too!

I'm sure Nazereth would agree with me that 'God' doesn't exist and he's just a figure head, just as satan is.

2007-04-10 [Crzvmpr]: (I donated the picture to Nazarath on ET there is also a wiki for that...)

Question, should I put up that wiki (for the picture) on this site?

2007-04-10 [Crzvmpr]: RELIGION people always shove it down your throat

2007-04-10 [Looni Commanda]: There's a reason that the council voted he was son of god XP

how do you explain this than? When my mom was being beaten by the same man, she was going to take the car out of the driveway to run from him. Well, ironically, she heard a voice tell her not to take the car, and she didn't. She jumped out the window, and when she looked to the driveway, there was a truck with a boat hooked to it broken down in front of the car! how do you explain that? just a gut feeling? I doubt it. And she wasn't hallucinating!

1)when my mom was just married to my dad, she had a dream that her sister inlaw was going to have a baby and it would be named mark. her sister inlaw was pregnant, and the baby was very very very premature, and scared that the baby was going to die. Ironically, the baby survived, and she named it Mark. My mom had a dream after that about my grandma, and the dream was that she was screaming at her boss and calling him an 'inconsiderate loser who couldn't care less about anyone but himself'. word for word, and when she told my grandmother about the strange dream, my grandma was scared because in the other room about a day before my mom told her, she had said those exact words to the man. my mom is not a psychic, far from it. You still havn't brought me to not believeing.

He did exist, and was the son of god. how do you explain the body being gone, and why did the council vote on him being the son?

The jews didn't want a false messiah running around, so if Jesus didn't reserect they would have had his body to prove he was not the son of god right? well they didn't have the body! the body was gone! Jesus said that he would reserect, and that was one of the signs that he was the son of god. If you were killed on a cross, I doubt you would be able to somehow get out of a cave blocked by a huge massive rock and gaurded by two roman soldiers.

2007-04-10 [The Voice of Difference]: You said all of that before. If there were two guards, how did he get out?

And to explian how, it's called a story. It's not about what 'actually' happened, it's supposed to be a lesson in morality. That's the whole piont of the story. Obviously, you're too moronic to understand this.

Okay, so your mom has dreams about things, that happen to come true. I have those dreams all the time, and you are still believing your mother out of blind faith. Still moronic. Did you ask your grandmother about htat instance. There is nothing ironic about any of what you said.

The bit about the car, that's called 'decision making.'

The council voted him that because he was a preacher of a good moral code. Jesus didn't want to be, "the son of god." He just wanted people to be good, honest, caring, non-judgemental, open-minded people.

2007-04-12 [Looni Commanda]: It's not just a story

In a book called the Talmud, it explains all the things that happened in these times. The jews, even though they didn't want him to be their king, wrote down that there was a man named Jesus Christ who walked the earth. they didn't deny, that he did indeed perform miracles. He made the blind see, the deaf hear, and cured diseases. but, since they had to admit that he did do all these things, they called him a magician. They had to call him something,... so what else?
And The council voted him Son of god as a name. The correct Jewish term before was the Messiah, which means son of god. They called him this even in the beginning, because One of the prophecys that came true was that when the son of god was to be born, a Super nova would appear in the sky. It would be so bright, that you would even be able to see it in the day. Jewish astronomers even recorded this, and don't deny that that was one of the prophecys that he could not have helped being born in. They voted him 'son of god' because he fullfilled every single prophecy that was to be accomplished. He was to be born of the virgin mary, born when a super nova would occur, be born in a manger, in bethlahem, and be killed on a cross because of claiming a lie. He did claim he was the son of god. Scientists dug up his arrest records, and that he claimed he was the son of god. He did claim this! and he was put to death for it. He did not just want people to be good. The sky would grow dark, which it did, and an type of earthquake would occur. There is no denying that this all happened, because there is definate proof. In the Talmud, everything even the things that jews didn't want put in there, (miricles) were recorded. And when Jesus was put to death, there was a sign above his head 'king of the jews'. whoever wrote this wiki, claimed he read the bible twice, and parts of the Torah? Does he or you know, that the Torah is the first five books of the old testiment? So he either read not all the books of the old testiment, and all of the new testiment twice, or not at all. Parts of the Torah, would be parts of the old testiment.

2007-04-12 [The Voice of Difference]: You're just saying what's in the bible. We've heard it before.

What, so called 'Scientists'? Don't you think that if that were true, that it would be all over the news? Hello! Earth to dumbass! Do you ever stop to think? This would be one of the greatest discoveries of mankind, moron! What do you take me for? Do you check any of your facts, and go off anything other than the bible and what you're told? And if what you say about the 'death sentence papers' is true, why are you and your family the only ones who know about it?

I've read all four books of the old testiment. Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, the whole shabang. I've heard that story before. It's just a story, there is nothing other than those books that say otherwise, and if there are books made after it, even ask experts, they are based off of those books. Because some book says so, is not 'definitive' proof. It's biased at the least.

You ever heard of the Harry Potter books? Do you ever stop to think what later generations would think if you typed on that book, "A true story," or if people taught it to people like a holy scripture? You would have people arguing that that was true. People who knew better would tell you that it's bullshit, and a story, meant to teach morals and values, like every other book. But, Morons like you, would quote it and say it's 'definite' proof because that's the way your small impresionable mind is taught throughout your small and insignificant life. Eventually bastardizing it over the years and getting what we have today, where someone will get offended whenever someone has something to say agianst it.

2007-04-12 [Looni Commanda]: I'm not the only one that knows about them. I've seen them, and looked at them myself. Please, stop calling me a moron or dumbass. I don't call you these things even though you disagree with me... I am just trying to speak what I know and learn.

I know these things are real, because for one thing they were on the news. My grandfather's best friend was the man who found the dead sea scrolls, who died of a heart attack. He had the newspaper (which I was looking at only a month ago) and everything about the scrolls and his death. It's not a bunch of bullshit.

I've heard of Harry potter, and I wouldn't go around preaching that that was true. I don't hate you as a person, I just don't understand why you hate the Idea of God so much. Let me ask you this, Was Jesus a good man with morals who spoke the truth, a liar, or a psycho? Because if he was a good man with morals, he was neither of the other two. If he was not a good man with morals, he was both of the other things. I believe he was a good man with morals, who told the truth and WAS the son of god. Because, If I were him, and I knew I wasn't the son of god, I would tell the people to stop nailing my wrists to the cross. I would think that he would too.

2007-04-12 [The Voice of Difference]: It's called a revolution, there always have to be sacrifices.

I'm sorry if I seem to hate you, I don't mean to sound that way, I simply have an intolerance for ignorance.

I didn't say you would, I said other people. But either way, if that is what children are brought up to believe, then that is the way they will think.

Yes, Jesus was a good man with morals, but just because some book says so, doesn't make it true.

Where are you getting your information? Is your mom sitting behind you and feeding you this?

If you really wanted to learn, the easiest way is to believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear. If it sounds remotely flawed, question it. Think of it like spelling, if it doesn't look right, it's most likely wrong, but if you take reliable resources, and use them, you may find out it's spelled right.

2007-04-12 [Looni Commanda]: I get most of my information from the rabbi I know. His name is jim, and we used to see him around all the time. He was actually a christian rabbi, but he still had jewish traditions.

My mom is a very religious person yes, and she does help me understand a lot of my questioning.
A while back, probably a year ago, I was questioning a lot of things. Things that... didn't look right. For instance, I didn't understand how it could possibly be true that a man named Jesus Christ actually walked on the earth, or even merely existed. But when I started talking to the rabbi and pasters, they explained things to me that cleared some of the questions. Things that didn't seem so clear, suddenly were. It was yes, like you said, spelling. Nothing looked right.

I don't want to try and pull you from your beliefs, and I really enjoy hearing what you have to say actually. Because it shows me that you are a deeper thinker than most others. You question, and you are curious. more of the "Why" kind of person. I totally agree with this philosophy. No one asks "why" anymore, and I don't understand that. People are indeed, just believing because 'they told me too'. I have a lot to say,... but I can't spit it out in words on paper. It seems so clear to me when I think, but when i'm talking... it comes out in blabber lol. But when I have help, it is easier.

2007-04-13 [Nekko fox]: Okay...honestly. I haven't been on Elfpack in some time...but here I am, thanks to my brother here, Rauel. How you doing there, mate? Anyway, I am seriously forced to agree with Rauel on this one. Did yo0u not listen to a word he said? "Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear." So, thusly, "JIM" shouldn't sway your opinion, or should you bring up this man at all. You had trouble believing that Jesus Christ was a real person? HONESTLY! It's not so hard believing that SOMEONE is named Jesus. That point is moot. Hel, Mexicans name their kids Jesus ALL THE TIME! What you SHOULD be question is the fact that he was "Born of a virgin", "Walked on Water", "Fed an Army of Ten-Thousand with a loaf of bread and ONE fish" "Cured the blind, the sick, the crippled", "Turned water into wine"...Simply put, it's not a matter of people questioning his existence...it's the fact that our ancestors made up BULLSHIT STORIES, and yes, I mean STORIES, about this man, things that couldn't possibly happen without either having a blinding level of faith that borders zealotry, or just being a complete dunderpate. We just discussed this matter; you know, the one about "Believing half of what you see, and nothing what you hear?" Do you remember that? Honestly? Because we brought it up earlier. And what is the bible? Let's break that word down. First off, the word "Bible" is a greek word, derived from the word Biblios, meaning "Book." False advertising people. Bible means book. Not HOLY Book. Just book. That's it. The problem is....it is comprised of sixty-six books. (Six hundred books away from an evil number...fun! ^_^). The next problem, is that this book, is over two-thousand years old. A little out dated, to say the least. And everyone likes to add a little something when you retell a story, right? Exactly...a two thousand year old book, must have been edited more than just a little. Next off; Aren't there SIX different forms of the bible? Okay, so which one should we be following mindlessly this month? Next on the agenda is te matter of OTHER RELIGIONS! Do you realize, that Christianity, and it's MULTITUDES of denominations, have only been around for more or less four thousand years? If that? So, thusly, WHAT HAPPENED TO EVERYONE BEFORE CHRISTIANITY?! Are they all in hell? Seems a bit harsh for God being a lazy sombitch that won't send down a messiah for the ignorant masses for thousands and thousands of years...Next up, you brought up the whole "Jesus got nailed to a cross, stabbed, then deposited in a deep hole, the covered with a rock." Lovely little story, great to tell the kids, can't wait for the movie. BUT! Why is that we celebrate this whole ordeal on Easter? Please, spare me the diatribe about Jesus being resurrected on that day, blah-da-blah-da-blah. Bull. First off, no one was there to witness this "Resurrection". Next, would you kindly explain why this "resurrection" conveniently lands on the pagan holiday of the spring equinox? It's the same matter of Christmas. You know, the celebration of Jesus' birth and all that on the 25th of December? So, why is that according to all religious accounts, the Oh Holy Son of the One God, was born in the summer? Nice. A little mishap in the birthdays there? No matter. I just want to understand why it is that His birthday had been moved six months backward to conveniently overlap with the pagan holiday celebrating the winter solstice. Do we see a running theme here? Perhaps you should go back, move the fucking' holidays back to where they belong so that your ancestor's blatant disregard for other religions, their xenophobia, and their subjugation of the masses stop pissing on other peoples boots. And I need to bring this up because I had been reading the string between you and my brother. Very moving. Especially the part about your late parent's seeing Jesus. Do you know that it is scientically proven that when the body and the mind are put under extreme duress, you stop and draw a blank. Your brain literally freezes, and goes into a kind of 'screensaver' mode, where you essentially go to your own little happy place. Some people would describe this as an 'out of body experience', but all it is, is just your mind being unable to cope with the facts of life for the moment. That's why people see Jesus; I'm sure Buddhists see Buddha, Hindu's see Genisha, and Islamics see Mohammad. And for your mother's dreams, I'm sorry but that doesn't prove jack. It's another proven fact that people canNOT remember word for word discussion from even twelve hours previous, much less the other day. Next, is that the same applies to dreams. It's called exaggeration and emphasis on plot. Not to mention the Wizards first rule; People are stupid. People will believe ANYTHING, either because they WANT it to be true, or they fear it to be true. Thusly, people, the Romans, feared the ressurection of Jesus. Others WANTED him to be resurrected. Like the passage above quotes "Man is the most dangerous creature; it is the only one that can fool itself." So, my suggestion is to stop believing 'Jim', stop talking to yer mum and listening to her avid discussions with the Son, and starts connecting a few neural pathways and forming ORIGINAL THOUGHTS, rather than regurgitating the mindless apocraphyl of your up-bringing. Okay, back to you Rauel.

2007-04-13 [Nekko fox]: Oh, and here's a fun link to check out for you. Look up Jesus while your in there. You'll get a few giggles out of it...or fall into a fuming rage at the injustice of it all...either way, I've said my piece.


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bible

2007-04-13 [The Voice of Difference]: "76. Jesus 

The most famous cult leader in the history of the world. Led billions of people (alive or dead) to believe in the largest scam of all time. He was nailed to a piece of wood merely because crucifiction was extremely popular back then and because he was persecuted for seemingly impossible ideals. The bible is no more real than Lord of the Rings or Star Trek."
                           -From Urbandictionary.com

As from above, and I have more to say later.

2007-04-13 [Looni Commanda]: You still haven't swayed me in my beliefs.

I didn't actually personally talk with jim, because Usually it was my mother that talked to him. In fact, just a couple of minutes ago I was talking to her. Jesus was killed on a cross, And I don't know how to prove it. Even if there is the theory that he is imaginary, and I get comfort knowing he is there and I will go somewhere good, I like to stick with it. I find little things that catch my like a fish on a hook when I read scripture.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but may I jsut ask a question?
Hebrew was the correct text that the bible was written in. Not greek, or Roman. but Hebrew. Do any of you study hebrew? I know I bring my mom into this alot, (because yes I do trust her. She brought me into this world, and my life goes on good so far). She studies a lot of hebrew, and I want to ask you a question. Do you?
In hebrew, Joshua, (or in hebrew it is pronounced Yeshua), means salvation. Joshua, is Later in hebrew pronounced Jesus. And Here is one thing that I like to bring up.
Children, like you said believe in the fairy tale of santa. Yes, Santa is not real. But, in a way he is.
The children know, there is someone that is going to leave a gift of love under a christmas tree, and when they open it, they will most likely love it. They get gifts on christmas, that their parents gave them. Yes, the parents tell them that 'santa' gave the gifts to them, but the kids don't know it was the parent. The only thing they don't know, is the true destination, and the identity it came from. But they do know that they are going to recieve something with love. Jesus, is yes as you put it, a comfort. And bringing up the moral thing, if he wasn't telling the truth, he was lying. So would it be a lie, if he said 'I am the son of god'? The new testiment shows us that he died on the cross to save us from our sins, so that we would be promised salvation. God sent us this man, so that we would be saved. That is what we were promised, and in every way, Yes i do believe he was the son that God sent.

Going to your birthday thing, yes I admit that is true. His birthday was not in December, you are totally correct that it was indeed in the summer area.

I know that my mom seeing jesus doesn't proove anything, but with the knowledge (which I can't seem to interpret fully still) that I have so far, I like to believe she was seeing something. Yes, I do also admit that it might have been a 'happy place' for her lol. I know that you guys probably think that I am pissed at you and moaning and complaining about you being atheist (if thats... what you call this? really sorry if I'm incorrect) but really I do enjoy speaking with you, because you look deeper into things that others. Asking why is good... and it's a sign that you are intelligent people. We need more intellegence around. (I wish I could say I was intellegent... but I aint lol I try)

2007-04-13 [VampireKisses]: Ok so here is two people who are arguing over the same thing. Here is two personal storys from both sides.

One) there is a god.

I was in the bath room, When I stubbed my foot and I screamed "GODDAMN IT". The lights started to flicker. Well I just ignored that and grabbed a glass to get a glass of water. When I tryed to get water it was all cloudy. I tried repeatedly to rinse out the cup and try again. It would not go clear. So I finally said, "sorry for taking your name in vain, Lord.". It all stopped lights stayed on and the water went clear.

Two) god doesnt exsist or he don't care.

I was in the kitchen. And all the sudden about 10 feet away from me there was what most people call a "Demon". He was just staring at me. Laughing at me and telling me I'm going with him, because his "Master" wanted my soul(or something like that I was a lil younger). I said " in the name of jesus christ, leave at once. He was still there laughing at me like I said something like pull down your pants and let me bang you. He came towards me and my father walked in and he disapperd (my father also claimed to be a black pope and that is the reason he disapperd).

So I can see both sides. Remember this is all opinions and believes. So dont try to be too mean to each other. And don't try to make the other one believe you because...as the picture says(even tho I don't agree with the picture) Don't shove religon down each others throat. Thats all I got to say...for now.

2007-04-15 [Nekko fox]: Okay, first off, Messir Tang decided to make the comment which started this little foray of ours. Nextly, LATIN was the first language that it was written in, not Hebrew. [The Voice of Indifferewnce] has a genesis link in his house. And, might I add, Jim's comments are even LESS worth your time because they are NOT second-hand knowledge, they are third-hand. And we keep bring up this little matter of "Believe half of what you see, and nothing of what you hear." We don't care about your opinion, and we're not trying to change it; we're trying to bring you out of your box. As for TOAV's comments...What on EARTH are you talking about? First off all, Demon's don't visit people unless you are dead. Were you dying? And what's this whole "Black Pope" thing your blathering on about? Next, what does the glass have anything to do with anything? I've taken the Christian lord's name in vain, repeatedly, and even added choice expletives. Even going so far as to say "Jesus Fucking Christ Tap Dancing Bananas" and variations of. Light problem? My light flicker occasionally. It's called faulty wiring. Hire an electrician. Cloudy water? Plumbers can fix that small problem. It could be lime sediment that was leaking intop the pipe but simply sealed itself off because of lime build up. And lastly, I'm not an Atheist, by any means of the word. I'm, if anything, gnostic pagan, believing in the true Gods, and questioning everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, before I make an opinion or rational decision. Now, I pass the buck over to my dear brother Rauel.

2007-04-15 [The Voice of Difference]: Well, I wouldn't believe anyone if they didn't have sufficient proof. How do you know he wasn't just lying by ommission, where he didn't lie, but he withheld key details? How do you know he was the son of god, but just one of the gods? Like there were many, and his father sent him to make you think that he was the only god? Happened all the time in Greek and Roman times.

2007-04-15 [Looni Commanda]: In the commandments, one of them is to believe in Yaway, (God) and believe he is the only god. When Yeshua, (Jesus) says that he is god, I like to think of it like this.
If you have a large glass of water, and pour it into three seperate cups, it is still the same water, but in three different bodys; representing the father, the son, and the holy spirit. There are not three gods, they are all equal as one.
I do not mock your faith at all, and I am deeply sorry for thinking you were an athiest, my apollogy. I'm not trying to be mean about anything.
But when you say The bible was written in latin, I'm sorry I believe you are wrong. The newer copies (which were still very old) were written in latin. But, the person who I mentioned before, my grandfather's friend was an archeologist who was the man that worked on the dead sea scrolls. You might be right about the New testiment being written in Latin, but the Old testiment was not. The old testiment was definately written in hebrew. Very very ancient hebrew. Abraham was the beginning of the Jews, and their writing was Hebrew. That was in the era of the old testiment. Moses is believed to have written the first five books of the old testiment. It makes no sense to say that the jewish nation spoke in read latin in their religious circles. I believe you are referring to copies that much of the new testament is translated from into english. But understand it is not just one manuscript that is used. there are many. They all agree and point although sometimes they do contain minor differences because of language.

2007-04-16 [Looni Commanda]: I respect your statement that if anything you are agnostic. this shows me that you have no intention of placing blind faith in anyone or anything. in this, you agree perfectly with the bible.

2007-04-16 [The Voice of Difference]: First, if you are going to state something from somewhere, realize we know what you're talking about. Abraham, did not start the Jews, his son did. His other son started the Islami religion. Old hebrew is known otherwise as Latin. Did you do your research to look that up?

You can believe whoever wrote what, just have good reason for it. So, back on that topic, does it make sense that some will have a different meaning, because they were translated from different languages. Don't you think that that would be a conveniant excuse to explain why some traditions are different. For example; Christmas. Think about it, do research outside of freinds.

I'm not agnostic either, I'm a simple polytheist. My religion doesn't have anything to do with my curiosity and intelligence.

2007-04-16 [The Voice of Difference]: Taken from someones house:

A new pastor was visiting in the homes of his parishioners. At one
House it seemed obvious that someone was at home, but no answer
Came to his repeated knocks at the door. Therefore, he took out a card And Wrote
"Revelation 3:20" on the back of it and stuck it in the door.
When the offering was processed the following Sunday, he found That his card had been returned. Added to it was this cryptic message.
"Genesis 3:10." Reaching for his Bible to check out the citation, he Broke up in gales of laughter.
Revelation 3:20 begins "Behold, I stand at the door and knock.”
Genesis 3:10 reads, "I heard your voice in the garden and I was afraid for I was naked."

2007-04-16 [Looni Commanda]: lol!!! ^_^ i like the little joke at the bottom. I'm sorry... who said they were- never mind I was looking at [Nekko fox]'s comment. Did he say he was Agnostic? O.O I'm sorry. my mistake again. But anyway, the Christmas thing is more over not even about Jesus anymore to some. Some people do christmas just for the food and gifts, and some do it as the actual religion of Jesus being born (even though we did agree that he was definately born in the summer.) But about the Hebrew thing, I don't think that's right, because Latin didn't come from the middle east. Old hebrew has barely changed, and Latin wasn't even around when Hebrew was. Hebrew was the original text, and when Latin was made, it helped when they had to write bibles in english. THEN they wrote in latin.

2007-04-17 [The Voice of Difference]: The christmas thing you're talking about is called, "Commercialism," and seems to be an excuse for a lot of weird traditions christians will celabrate.

I'll look that up and get back to you on the language bit. Until then; go here and read: www.thegodmurders.com

It has 173 reasons why god is a murderer. Go ahead, look up what it says in your 'Biblio'.

"Thank you, your honor. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I'm Gary DeVaney. It is impossible to be critical of evil while you praise it. It is impossible to defeat what you defend. As the prosecutor of the God of the Bible, I take legal issue with selected C&V charges that the defense will attempt to support. The jury is to judge the innocence or guilt of each count of murder as required by law. Judging all sides of each controversial or legal issue is important. The question is the highest form of thought. This is the time to think and to question. Most believers can not question what they believe. When a believer can not question, he / she remains mind-set. The no-win paradox for the believer is - if they do question what they believe - they prove not to truly believe it. That usually limits the believer's ability to judge the murderous God of the Bible as documented Chapters and Verses. Please, do not believe me or any other man. Judge the evidence, the selected Bible Chapters and Verses for yourself. You are the only thinker in your entire universe."

                      -Quoted from the above link

2007-04-17 [Looni Commanda]: god never really killed anyone. The people chose to die for him, in defence of him. roman soldiers held Jesus's trial at about three or two in the morning (kind of a more over illegal trial) because he had over thousands of followers that were willing to stick up for him if they had a regular trial. They were willing to die, God did not make them do anything. God is not a person playing us all like puppets, he made us because he wanted to take care of us, and to love us. The thing about Christianity, is that it is mostly based on Jesus's reserection. Without that, there wouldn't be any Christianity. He reserected, and people seemed to know it. Einestein, proved mathmatically that everything leads to one source. A strange correlation between the old and the new testiment, is how very similar the two are. The old testiment, basically repeats the whole process of what the new testiment says. For instance, Noah's ark. The people that told him he was crazy, and would not enter the boat because there was not going to be any kind of rain, died. Noah told everyone it was going to rain (even though it was not raining at all), and that there was going to be a flood, the people that didn't believe him didn't come onto the boat. Noah kept the door open, so anyone who believed him could enter. When the flood started though, he closed the door. The people that didn't come in, were killed by the high waters. In heaven, God keeps his gate open to anyone that wants to come in. All you have to do is love him. You don't have to be good, donate to the poor, or walk around preaching. All you have to do is love Jesus Christ. So he keeps the door open for anyone that wants to come in, and if you are in denial of him, get there, and say 'go ahead shut the door nothing will happen,' you will most likely go to the pit. God in fact, did not make hell for people. He made it for Angels that were evil, Satan. It was not his will that any man go into that pit.

2007-04-21 [The Voice of Difference]: That's the problem. Where does it say that? And again, we know what you are talking about when you mention a story, we don't need you to retell it to us from either your preacher's or your mother's piont of veiw. Remember the, "Form an original thought," bit we talked about earlier?

People focus on loving Jesus, rather than learn what he taught.

2007-04-22 [Looni Commanda]: I do know what Jesus taught, that he would be lifted up on a cross for sin, that he would rise again in three days, that we could recieve forgiveness from him for our short comings, and evil ways. That we must love each other as we ourselves desire to be loved. He taught that he saw satan fall like lighting. I'm not sure what it is you think he taught that I do not know. ? ? But I also know, that jesus was a jew who claimed to follow believe and honor the old testiment which he called the law and the prophets. If he claimed this, it means that he taught we, are to believe not just in him. but also, in the law and the prophets. The only people he told us not o believe were people who add to these things in such a way that they take away from what these people taught. It is impossible to believe that Jesus was a great teacher if you don't believe what he taught. This is why I say he was not just a man; he is the Messiah for the law and prophets, all described precisely who the messiah would be when he came. I do believe that the things that he taught are true. I do not contradict myself and state that he was a great man, a good person, a fantastic teacher, and yet deny half of the things he said to be the truth.

2007-04-23 [The Voice of Difference]: I like that, in your first line, it says, "forgiveness from him", meaning Jesus. Did you also know that in John 8:15 & 12:47 Jesus said: "I judge no man"?

In John 4:22 Jesus said: You people worship what you do not understand. We worship what we understand, because salvation is of the Jews. Are you Jewish?

It says in Isaiah 7:14 The "virgin" (almah) shall be with child and his name shall be Immanuel. In Isaiah's day, 'almah' simply meant, "young woman" - Not a virgin.
And, why is the Messiah's name Jesus Christ instead of "Immanuel"? Who calls Jesus "Immanuel" when referring to Him? Do you call Jesus Christ "Immanuel" when referring to Him? By what name do you call Him? Did not Isaiah state: "His name shall be Immanuel."?

You're right. You don't contradict yourself. You contradict what you're refering to.

2007-04-23 [Looni Commanda]: Yeshua meant, "I condemn no man" when He said I "judge" no man. He had not come as the roaring lion of Judah yet, he had come to offer forgiveness which means He came as the Lamb.
He shall return as the roaring Lion and save His People Israel
which consist of both the Jews and the Gentiles who have been
grafted into the Tree spoken of in the New Testament.

Salvation is "of" the Jews....this means that salvation came
through the Jewish nation...it does not matter whether of not
I am Jewish...what matters it that the Messiah had to be born of a Jew.

The word almah was translated by Jews BEFORE Yeshua was born as VIRGIN in Issiah 7:14 in the Greek Septuagint. The JEWS chose to use this word when they could have simply chosen to write the Greek word for "young unmarried woman." Did you ever stop to think that what matters is what the word meant
during the time period the orginal writer wrote it (which is
previous to the birth of Christ. Maybe they began to use a different meaning in Christ's day...in denial of Christ. 

The TITLE Jesus Christ means Yeshua Ha Maschiach it is NOT
a first and last name and in the Jewish Religion people are given many names (titles) to represent something about WHO they are. Jesus is Greek for Yeshua which means "Salvation"
Christ is the Greek Word for Maschiah in Hebrew which means
Messiah. The Old Testament shows that the one named Immanuel
is ALSO the salvation of God.

By the way, my teacher is a JEWISH Rabbi...I belong to a JEWISH congregation of believers in Yeshua (JESUS)

2007-04-24 [The Voice of Difference]: Then how can you reciave salvation from him?

He was already alive when he said that. It didn't matter where he was born from. As you say in your next paragraph, "what matters is what the word meant
during the time period the orginal writer wrote it"

He still wasn't named Immanuel. And in his day, it meant young woman. Right there shows that people translated it to be percieved wrong. The 'VIRGIN' birth couldn't have happened. First, it says in Matthew 1:16 Jacob was the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary…
This introduction to Joseph and Mary starts off with Joseph being Mary's husband. Doesn’t husband mean that Mary was already married to Joseph? And in Matthew 1:18 Mary was betrothed (Catholic) espoused (KJV) to Joseph but before they lived together she was pregnant. And Mark 6:3 documents: Is He (Jesus) not the son of Mary, the brother of James, Joses, Judas and Simon? Luke 2:7 & John 2:12 also provide evidence that Jesus had brothers and sisters. Specifically, if Mary sexually consummated her marriage with Joseph to make it legal and had more children, how could Mary have remained a virgin? Galatians 4:4 Paul said: Jesus was made of a woman made under the law… KJV
Galatians 4:4 Paul said: Jesus was born of a woman born under the law… Catholic
Paul was the biggest NT writer about Jesus. Paul said nothing unusual about the birth of Jesus. Doesn’t “born under the law” mean that Mary had married Joseph, had sex with Joseph and bore Jesus legitimately under the law?
When he shows up, I still won't believe him. Have you ever heard, "If on the path, you meet the Enlightened one, kill him." Do you understand what that means?

I know what his title is. My NAME IS Joshua.

Good for your teacher, it's just another mans word that doesn't really matter.

So, now you're sounding to contradict yourself. Jews don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, that's majorly what seperates the Jewish from Christians.

Believers tend to attach their egos to their God, President, company, team or love-object. When criticized, believers blindly defend those criteria as if they were defending their own egos. If someone other than God had done these things would you have taken side with him or her? Can you explain your attitude even to yourself?

2007-04-24 [Looni Commanda]: I’ll be completely honest with you…all of the killing that goes on in the Name of Jesus, Allah, and between races, nations, countries, tribes…these things horrify me. But I do not blame race or religion for murder, thievery, jealousy, or betrayal…I do not think it is the differences between
human beings that causes the problems among mankind so much as I do that it’s this one common factor that all human beings share…they are imperfect in their ways and capable of doing imperfect things. We all fall short of perfection but some fall further away from it than others do. People that want to control others, or that envy etc…will use their religion or nation as an excuse to act out all of the things that are within their heart. I do not deny that religion or culture can intensify what is already there, but underneath all that religion there is a person with a
free will. If religion were the true problem, everybody that murders in the name of a religion would be “not guilty by reason of religion” People know that it is wrong to murder, to steal, to cheat, to lie etc… But they can fall so far into these things that they are desensitized…have no empathy and therefore no will to restrain themselves. I believe in freedom, so long as that freedom is not used to harm others. In other words, I do believe that it is necessary to maintain law and order in
order to sustain life. If someone is an absolute danger to society for instance, that person must be held accountable and be prevented from doing further damage.

The end of your last posting confused me…I do not want to reply to it until I am sure I know
What it is your asking me. Could you be more specific? I don’t want to write a reply that does not apply to what you asked me to begin with. You asked if I’ve been shocked by what God has
been reported to have done with these selected Bible chapters and verses…the verses you sent
To me…in regard to the virginity of Mary…are murderous evil deeds? I am not sure if you forgot to send me some verses or if my computer is not showing them…or if I am missing something you are trying to tell me. I don’t like murderous evil deeds…but I am not sure how they apply to the virginity of Mary (or non-virginity). I do not think an evil group of scholars rewrote the scriptures so I’d believe in Jesus so if that is what you wondered about…what I don’t like is the men who slander the translators of the Bible. People have tried to tell me that the vowels were taken out of The Divine Name of God by some evil Jewish Scribes…I laughed so hard because
I know that in the Hebrew language there are NO VOWELS! There are now vowel markers…but
Hebrew is constructed purely of consonants! There have NEVER been any vowels in the Divine
Name YHWH. People make accusations that don’t turn out to be true…but if you have some that are true I want to be the first to see them because it is good to know the truth

As for the verses in reference to Mary…I don’t believe God did anything wrong to these verses.
I also do not believe that the translators of my Bible tampered with them. Why would a Hebrew
Scholar that does not believe in Jesus because Jesus is not even born yet tamper with a verse
And make it look like a virgin is going to give birth to a son and call that son Immanuel?! The people who translated that verse to read “virgin”…were Jewish Scholars that translated the Hebrew Bible into Greek BEFORE Christ was ever born. My offense is directed at whoever made
Such an erroneous claim and since I have heard all about this before you ever forwarded this…
I do not mean that I am offended with you. I have researched this and I know that the person
Who originally made such a statement is WRONG…I can prove it to you.

In regard to Isaiah 7:14
If you read the whole chapter in CONTEXT…you will see that the person giving birth HAS to be a virgin because if she is just a maiden or young woman…that gives birth to a child and calls him Immanuel…it is NOT A SIGN OF ANYTHING OTHER THAN NATURE! God is offering in this verse to give Israel a sign from heaven…a sign that will make it obvious to everybody that it is a miracle and not just an everyday normal event.  Babies were named Immanuel back then…young women often under the age of 14 gave birth to these babies…it happened ALL THE TIME…so how would this be a sign from God? Even if someone invented this book of Isaiah, the person would be intelligent enough to make his Almighty God at least look like one! The God would do something supernatural…or nobody would notice the sign! The word almah can mean virgin and it is clear to me that in context…this verse was meant to be understood that way. I am not suggesting that you believe it’s true…that is up to you…I am merely saying that whoever wrote it wanted you to understand the word almah to mean virgin. If it were translated the other
Way the paragraph would not make sense.

There are other places in Scripture that back up the view that Mary was a virgin until after Jesus was born…in the Old Testament. But I am already running late…I will reply to the rest of your posting soon…and I do like it that you show me these things. I do want to check them out…it is
In my best interest to do so and I am glad you take the time to do what you do. I wish there were
More people like you…the world needs somebody to keep them thinking and searching. You sound intelligent…I have a feeling if anybody can show me something that arouses my suspicions as to the integrity of the translators of the Bible and the writers of the New Testament,
It will be you. At least the things you tell me are not ridiculous! They are valid questions and worth scrutinizing and doing some research on if I haven’t seen them before. I think it’s important to Examine all things…you’re right to speak out if you think someone is dishonest…I cannot fault That. I want to know if there are grounds to think so and feel confident that if there are you will find them and pass them on to me.

2007-04-25 [The Voice of Difference]: Another good person to talk to about the inaccuracies of the bible is [Ronin Wolf'sheart]. He'll surely have some good insight to the discrepancies you may have. But he is on Elftown.

2007-04-25 [Looni Commanda]: I can't click on it you didn't type it in right??

2007-05-29 [Looni Commanda]: oh jeez im stupid he's in elftown lol I didn't see that

2007-06-07 [The Voice of Difference]: It's okay.